future NYC Subway

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  1. This is the description:

    (A) 207 St to Far Rockaway (8 Av Exp, Fulton St Exp, Rockaway Lcl)

    (B) Gun Hill Rd to Little Neck Pkwy (Concourse Lcl, 6 Av Exp, LIE-Central Queens Exp)

    (C) Fort Lee to 234 St-Cross Island Blvd (8 Av Lcl, Jamaica Exp)

    (D) Dyre Av to Coney Island-Stillwell Av (Concourse Exp, 6 Av Exp, Brighton Exp)

    (E) Laurelton-Springfield Blvd to WTC (8 Av Lcl, Queens Blvd Exp)

    (F) Langdale St to Coney Island-Stillwell Av (6 Av Lcl, Queens Blvd Exp, Culver Exp)

    (G) Forest Hills-71 Av to Dyker Heights-86 St (Crosstown Lcl, Queens Blvd Lcl, Ft Hamilton Lcl)

    (H) Rockaway Park to Church Av (6 Av Lcl, Rockaway Lcl, Culver Lcl)

    (J) Hollis-193 St to Broad St (Nassau St Lcl, Jamaica Lcl)

    (K) Fort Lee to Victory Blvd (8 Av Exp, Staten Island Exp)

    (L) College Point to Rockaway Pkwy (Canarsie Lcl, Northern Blvd Lcl)

    (M) College Point to 9 Av (Myrtle Av Lcl, Nassau St Lcl, 4 Av Lcl)

    (N) Forest Hills-71 Av to Coney Island (Broadway Exp, Queens Blvd Lcl, 4 Av Exp)

    (P) Throgs Neck to Jamaica Av (2 Av Exp, Throgs Neck Lcl, Union Tpke Exp)

    (Q) Broadway-125 St to Coney Island (Broadway Exp, Brighton Lcl)

    (R) Bayside-Bell Blvd to Bay Ridge-95 St (Broadway Lcl, Astoria Exp, 4 Av Lcl)

    (S) Grand Central to Times Square (42 St Local)

    (S) Bedford-Nostrand to Prospect Park (Franklin Av Lcl)

    (T) Gun Hill Rd to Lefferts Blvd (3 Av Lcl, 2 Av Lcl, Fulton St Exp)

    (V) Jamaica-179 St to Coney Island (Queens Bypass, 2 Av Exp, West End Lcl)

    (W) Flushing-Main St to Euclid Av (Broadway Lcl, Astoria Lcl, Fulton St Lcl)

    (X) 168 St to St. George Terminal (Triboro Lcl)

    Hope you enjoy!

  2. WestEndExp, I saw your map. A little complicated,but great boost in pop. Like damn you got over 100,000 riders at 86 St, and an actual population in Staten Island. Nice work😀😀!

  3. Why is it that when I see others fantasy maps they all always have the L and 4 meeting up at Kings Plaza?
    few reasons why it’s stupidity: the L is already above ground at Rockaway Pkwy. So you’ll have to destroy everything south of New Lots, including a vital area:Canarsie Yds.Also it has to make a extremy tight curve at Rockaway Pkwy, which is dangerous. And another tight curve by the Belt Pkwy and Flatbush Ave. Now with the 4 you’ll have to build a curve like the Q at 63 St, then dig up Utica, make a sharp curve at Flatbush to get to Kings Plaza. Then there’s the problemof making the transfer between an above-ground station and a underground station(not hard, but costs a lot of money.).And let’s not forget that this terminal is being built at a shopping mall’s bus station, which disrupts bus service.You may have your own opinions, but this is mine.

  4. Good points. Also consider that Kings Plaza would never need that much service. The 4 would be enough. The 4 would be express to downtown Brooklyn and Manhattan while the L would be a slow local through East NY, Bushwick and Williamsburg. There is far more demand to downtown Brooklyn and Manhattan than those other areas so the L would be a complete waste.

  5. So I’ve tinkering with the website that WestEnd was using, and I’ve created 2 subway lines that serve both important streets:
    -A line that would go Kings Plaza, curve up Utica,stay on Utica-Malcolm X up to Broadway,curve up Broadway to Williamsburg Bridge, then run down Delancy St to Essex St, and refigure the Chyristie St Connection so it would link up with Broadway, then go down Broadway to 225 St in The Bronx. It would have 3 lines that branch out, the first would stay down Broadway in Brooklyn to Bdwy Junction. The other 2 would curve out from 122 St in Manhattan to link up with 125 St, then stay down 125 St to Randalls Island, where a 3-way switch would be built, 1 going to The Bronx, another going to Queens, and the last connecting the 2. It’s basically the Hammels Wye.The route that goes out to the Bronx would travel down 149 St, then curve down to Southern Blvd where it would stay on it up to the Botanical Garden.The Queens route would use the Hell Gate Bridge, but curve off beforge it hits Queens to run down Dimtars Blvd. A portal would be built in the park that lies right before the actual streets. It would run down Dimtars Blvd, curve on Hazen St and run under LGA(obviously making stops there), goe through College Pt. Creek, and runs down College Pt. Blvd to 14 Av, curves down to either Parsons Blvd or Francis Lewis Blvd, and from there it would run down to Main St, where it would curve down and run back to College Pt. Blvd (it makes a 360* around College Pt Blvd. The other runs down 4th Ave to Barclays Center, curve up Flatbush to the Manhattan Bridge, then link up with the 1st until 14 St, where
    It would run Park Ave until Fordham Plaza in The Bronx.

  6. Correction: The 4th Ave Line would link up with Hamilton Ave, make stops in Red Hook via Hamilton Ave, then run under the Hugh.L.Carey Tunnel, then curve off to stop at Governers Island, then run down to Broadway in Manhattan until it meets up with the 1st line, then would continue under Broadway until Union Sq, where the 2 lines would split and the 4th Ave Line would run under Park Ave until Fordham Plaza, where it would curve under Webster Ave until Gun Hill Rd, where it would run down Gun Hill Rd until Bay Plaza, where it would link up with the 6 at Pelham Bay Pk.

  7. A few more questions:

    1. What’s up with the 125 St confusion on the 4/5/6? Like seriously! If the 6 is already on the same platform at 116 (built before 125/Bronx connection, please note), then why don’t they stay like that at 125 St, and have the 4/5 on the lower level. That way when trains are terminating at 125 St or running in two directions and terminating at 125 St, then you can just cross the platform to get the other train instead of making passangers walk a flight of stairs to get to the other train. And if you look carefully, the tracks are on opposite sides on each platform on both levels.

    2. Why did they stop sending the B to 168 St, and the C to Bedford Park Blvd? Now having the 6th and 8th Ave Lines pair up together was a great idea. Passengers would be able to get to Coney Island or East N.Y. just from Grand Concourse, and Rockaway Park or Coney Island from Washington Heights.

    3. Can the A,B&D really get the title of ‘express’? Now the A and D don’t stop from 59 to 125, so that is technically a super-express, but the only stops it skips (on the A) 50,23 and Spring, which isn’t much because the C and E could get there only a few seconds later, so it’s pointless to call it express. And on the D it only skips 23 and 14th, and the F/M would still probably make it to either W 4th or 34th in the same time.

    4. WHY DID THE 9 EVER EXIST?! When the 9 was around it pretty much screwed the 1 train by making skip-stop service. So if you needed to get to 157 St, and you were on the 9, you needed to transfer at the nearest stop where the 1 and 9 met up and take 1 back down. NOW IMAGINING DOING THAT AS YOUR DAILY COMMUTE.

  8. My answers to Tyler’s question:

    1. Fantastic question. I don’t know why they made the layout that way. It would be more simpler to just keep the (4)(5)(6) on separate levels, then have the lower level tracks ascend and then all tracks are at the same level.

    2. They were swapped because of yard reasons. The (B) was based out of Concourse and the (C) 207, so it wouldn’t really make sense to make it complicated to go between yards.

    3. They’re still called expresses to avoid confusion with locals. And this goes for other lines too.

    4. The (9) existed for skip-stop in order to speed up commutes on the northern half of the 7 Av line. And if you were going to 157, you would simply wait for the (1). This was discontinued in 2005 because of increasing ridership at the stations the (9) bypassed.

  9. WestEndExp,
    1. Ok understandable but still think it was a dumb move.

    2.Well then why couldn’t the B and C swap yards then?

    3.Ok but the locals get there in the same amt. of time! It’s pointless!

    4. Why didn’t they just create the 1 express and move the 2 to permanent local service?

  10. Tyler:

    Riders who really want this can just make a cross-platform transfer at 125 St to the (A) or (D). It’s that simple. Also, this would have the (A) running local on weekends between 145 and 168 if the (B) goes to 168.

    If you detime 6 and 8 Avs the expresses would be much, much, faster. Plus, people do not care if the time savings are minimal. Also, keep in mind delays and signal problems could happen at any time.

    That would be EXTREMELY HORRIBLE. You would have a severe bottleneck at 96 St with cascading delays. In other words, the (1) and (2) would have to criss-cross in front of each other. This will also make the (5) even more crushloaded since your (2) is local. A mob of passengers at 96 St would be very common. So just leave the Broadway-7 Av line as-is!

  11. Can the X train really get the title of Triboro RX?

    Now the prefix tri comes from the Latin word ‘three’, and there are many that serve three boroughs, an example being the B,D,2,4, and 5 which all serve Bkyln,Manh, and The Bx. Or the A,F,R,M,J, and Z trains which serve Bkyln., Manh., and Qns. .

    The X train on the other hand would mainly serve 3 boroughs: Brooklyn,Queens, and The Bronx. It would only enter Manhattan and Staten Island for one stop, St. George and 145 St-8 Av. But either way the X is serving all 5, so it would technically be the Pentaboro RX.

  12. Subway Line for your thoughts:

    A line that would start in Bay Ridge, travel up 4 Av to Barclays Ctr, then continues under Ashland Pl to Park Av and travels under the BQE until McGuiness Blvd in Greenpoint, which from there it will run under McGuiness to 21 St, then at Dimtars Blvd will curve under Dimtars Blvd to LGA, then tunnel under College Pt. Creek and curve up to College Pt. Blvd and from there it would go to The Bronx where it would tunnel under Castle Hill Av, curve up Tremont Av, and stay down Tremont Av to Schurz Av in Throgs Neck. It pretty much makes a 180 around East Bronx.

  13. WOWZA

    It’s been super-long, but are there any updates on a new futurenycsubway map?

  14. No, I’m working on other maps at the moment. I am working on a regional rail plan too. But any futureNYCSubway posts will be limited to individual lines or proposals.

  15. This would cost way too much if it were built. But since this is a fantasy map sorta, it’s pretty good. What I was thinking for the Manhattan-Glendale-Maspeth-Jamaica line was a second 42 st line, the 9 train, which would start at the Hudson Yards station on the 7, then go with the 7 until Hunters Point, then split up, switch to the Lower Montauk line, and run on the ROW until 121 on the J+Z, then curve down into the Rockaways which would be converted to IRT usage. Of course, there would be a transfer to the A. (To avoid congestion on the 7 because of the 9, many Manhattan-bound 9 trains would end at Greenpoint avenue, which has no relation to the G, it will be a new stop on the 9)

  16. I think you should make a more scaled-down version of this proposal so it could be possible in the near future, excluding 2nd Avenue in Manhattan (but only Manhattan) b/c that’s very possible and is under construction. But I think this plan, while a pipe dream of sorts, is cool and would benefit this city and NJ and Nassau. You should probably add a Lower-Manhattan to Newark line, or a Staten Island- Newark line. But either way, this is amazing! Would you provide NICE (the bus) reroutes for those Queens extensions? Because people in Nassau don’t need 179th or Main Street with your plan.

  17. NICE Bus will still service Downtown Jamaica and Flushing because of demand. There will be new NICE Bus routes to carry people to the new Subway Stations of extended lines.
    I am strongly advising that South Shore Brooklyn and Queens either has a Subway line or Light Rail line as a Crosstown link, and the same for Eastern Queens to The Bronx (as a Light Rail) to help relieve pressure on the Q44 SBS.

  18. I also think if the (E) should be extended past Jamaica Center, it should NOT be to Southeast Queens. But rather returning to the Van Wyck Expressway to terminate at Rockaway Blvd, just to allow the Port Authority Shuttle Buses to pick up and drop off there from JFK Airport when the AIRTRAIN service is suspended.
    The (Z) should be the line extended to Rosedale as there is not that much demand for Subway service in Southeast Queens (trains to arrive every 10 minutes at Peak Hours and every 15 to 20 minutes at Off Peak Hours), while the (J) is extended to Queens Village and further to Glen Oaks (relieve pressure on the Q46 and provide a direct transfer to the (F) at Springfield Blvd-Hillside Avenue).
    Maybe the (7) should be left alone because like the Lefferts Blvd (A), there’s an elevator or escalator blocking the way. The Northern Blvd line should be the line that extends to Bayside (Bay Terrace), Fresh Meadows-Oakland Gardens and Whitestone.

  19. I have an alternate history question for you even though it’s off topic to your post here. I was going to post this on the “Unbuilt Highways of New York City and Robert Moses” page but comments were closed. My question was what if Robert Moses built subways and crippled highways instead of building highways and crippling the subway system. Thanks in advance.

  20. Well that doesn’t make any sense because there were no highways to cripple back then. Also the demand for roads was a real thing. What was needed was a balanced approach where he should have built subways along side highways. If the LIE, Van Wyck, Cross Bronx, and his bridges had had space for mass transit we’d all be much better off.

  21. The UTICA AVENUE Subway will remain UNSUPPORTED, unless it is built into Triboro RX or the Canarisie line. I do not agree with the B46 SBS routing with its North Terminal at DeKalb Avenue, however I cannot argue against the high frequency of service the route demands.

  22. I can agree with vanshnookenraggen on the issue, as if we were to look at the Chicago Transit Authority, you can see the Red and Blue lines are built along the Expressways (the Red along the Dan Ryan and the Blue along the Stevenson). If Robert Moses had any sense, it would be a much better idea to have the Subway lines in the middle of the LIE and Van Wyck Expressway rather than bringing noise to the Corona and Elmhurst communities with the Flushing Line.

  23. Just say this:
    (E) – Guy R. Brewer Blvd Subway (to 137th Avenue – Rochdale Village).
    (F) – Hillside Avenue Subway (to Queens Village – Springfield Blvd).
    (J) – Central-Eastern Queens extension (to Glen Oaks – above LIRR ROW).
    (V) – Cambria Heights line (extended from 179th Street – Jamaica via Farmers Blvd and Linden Blvd).
    (Z) – Merrick Blvd Subway (to Rosedale – 243rd Street).

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